Q & A: Shane Carson — Rust Magazine

Shane Carson and Bob Trostle at Easy Bay Raceway in Tampa, Florida, February 1978. (Photo: Tracy Tally/Carson Archive)

Hall of fame sprint car driver remembers growing up at Oklahoma City Fairgrounds Speedway and being king of the Outlaws.

Interview: Saroyan Humphrey

Feature | Shane Carson is on the road again. Today he’s headed down I-44 to Indianapolis from home in Oklahoma City to attend the three-day Performance Racing Industry (PRI) Trade Show and USAC awards banquet driving his favorite highway car, a metallic red 2015 Cadillac ATS. Cruising at 85 mph, the retired dirt sprint car racer will drive into the December night and finish the 750-mile drive in time for dinner.

Carson first started racing sprint cars in 1976 and quickly adapted to the powerful race machines, winning the coveted track championship at Knoxville (Iowa) Raceway in ’78, driving for famed sprint car builder Bob Trostle.

During his life in motorsports, Carson, 65, has had a wide variety of roles in racing. He’s been a champion sprint car racer, a track promoter, an industry relations manager for the World of Outlaws, a member of the Sprint Car Hall of Fame Board of Directors and a performance driving instructor for the Richard Petty Driving Experience and Team Texas Driving School. Carson’s knowledge of racing is broad, and he enjoys being an ambassador of sorts to the world of racing.

Whether it’s checking out local talent near OKC, or driving guests around Texas Motor Speedway at speed in a NASCAR stock car, or being the guest of honor at a variety of race events over the years, Carson stays in touch with racing and its people as much as possible. Carson is a professor of dirt track racing.

Some driving career highlights include:

• Top-five finishes in World of Outlaws standings in ’82 and ’83.
• ’85 NCRA Hutchinson Nationals victory at Kansas State Fairgrounds.
• ’86 NCRA Champ Dirt Division point champion.
• Top-10 finishes in NCRA standings from ’90-’99.
• Inducted to the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame in 2007.

While chewing up the miles on his way to Indy, Carson passed the time talking and telling stories about his life at the track.

* * *

Your dad was a race promoter at the fairgrounds in Oklahoma City for many years; is that how you got interested in racing?
Shane Carson: Yeah, when I was born in the ’50s, my dad [Bud] was just starting to be a race promoter. He was originally a city engineer and he found himself involved with the Junior Chamber of Commerce. The Jaycees would get involved in city events and do promotion and my dad was in charge of those events.

He did a couple of big events for the city. The first one was a soap box derby race and it became one of the biggest in the country. The second was a drag race. That drag race put Oklahoma City on the map because it was a Nationals. Now that event is in Indianapolis and it’s called the U.S. Nationals. It’s a big deal; it was in Oklahoma City for two years when my dad ran it. I was only three or four years old, but I was understanding what was going on.

“OKC in the 1960s, it was the place to be!“ Sadly, the tracks has been demolished to make room for more fairgrounds parking. (Carson Archive)

All my heroes, people that I wanted to be like, were racers. I wasn’t a football guy, I wasn’t into riding horses, or playing baseball, I was into racing and I wanted to figure out how to do it. I started out on bicycles and went to everything with wheels.

I was there every week watching ’em as a kid and when I was 8 years old, I started selling programs. That was in ’62. I knew all the racers and they’d always buy programs from me and I thought that was really cool. I was able to have some sort of relationship with the drivers. They’d always come looking for me to get the program, to get the latest point standings or whatever.

Our company was called Mar-Car and that company was named after my mom. Her name was Mary. So, in 1957, when he incorporated and started doing the car races, he quit the city. He had four kids, a great job with insurance and everything and he quit to start his promotion business. Nobody understood what kind of maniac would do that with four kids and a pretty good gig as an engineer. But he did it and he made it work. It became really, really popular in Oklahoma. The kids that we ran around with, they always said, “We’re going to the Mar-Car races on Friday night!” They thought it was like NASCAR because it had that kind of name.

They were averaging 6,000-8,000 people every Friday night. The grandstand would seat about 8,500. It was a big grandstand. It was a half-mile track with a quarter-mile on the inside and it was all right there in front of the people. You could run two tracks every night. They’d run the modifieds on the quarter-mile and the supermodifieds on the half-mile.

When I started driving in ’73, I started on that little track and that’s how I made my entry into racing. I was rookie of the year. I went into motocross and then into modified racing. In Oklahoma, those cars were kinda like a sprint car, but they were a little bit longer and they weren’t as fast, but they were open wheel.

Were you driving your own car?
Carson: Well, I had an older brother, his name was Scott, and he was seven years older than me. He was a Vietnam vet. So, when he went off to the Army, he wasn’t there to coach me. I always looked up to him. His nickname was “Crash,” but I don’t know why they called him that because he didn’t crash that much. He was a good racer. I guess they just had to come up with something that sounded kinda funny.

So, he was racing as I was growing up. I knew, maybe one day, I was going to get one of his old cars and that’s what happened. He had a car that he was winning with and then he went up to the big track and then he had a car that was available to me when I was 18.

That was the rule, you had to be 18 to race. Because my dad ran the track, I couldn’t cheat. I couldn’t get around it. I wanted to figure out how to get out there at 16, because I knew other people that were 16 and they were running. But dad told me, he said, “Their dad said they were 18 and I’m going with that and I’m not saying you’re 18—until you’re 18!” I had the benefit of, but also the disadvantage of my dad being the promoter.

Teenager Carson and his CZ 125. (Carson Archive)

Sure; well, he had to toe the line, right?
Carson: Oh, yeah, he said, “If it was ever close, you’re going to get second.” He said, “There’s no way we’re going to have a close finish, if you get the win. So, when you beat ’em, you gotta beat ’em by a lot.”

You raced motocross before cars, but you hid it from your dad. How did you manage that?
Carson: I had a motocross bike. It was a Czechoslovakian-built bike, called a CZ. He always said if I was going to race, it was going to be on four wheels. So, I had a panel truck and I kept it inside the truck. He just didn’t know it was there. So, luckily, I was able to race it and he never knew I was doing it until it came out in the paper that I had won a championship. I was in trouble.

Did he offer congratulations?
Carson: No. But by that time I was 18 and I got to race Scott’s car.

How long did you race the modified?
Carson: Until about ’76 and then I got to where folks where watching me and then I thought I could possibly race a sprint car. So, they moved me from a six-cylinder to a sprint car and I picked it up pretty quick and I was on my way. By 1978, I was racing full time against all the guys that were the champions.

Your rise in sprint cars came pretty quickly; how do you remember your first taste of success?
Carson: I was driving for LaVern Nance. He was out of Wichita. He was a builder; he built [race] cars. He got me in his sprint car in 1976 for a race or two and he decided I could do it. So, he built me a brand-new car and we headed to Florida to race [in ‘77]. We were working our way down and there was a race in Phenix City, Alabama. I ended up winning one of those main events and the guy that I beat was Doug Wolfgang; he ended up running second.

The way it worked out, eventually, when Wolfgang moved out of that car, Bob Trostle, his car owner, said, “Remember that kid that beat us in Phoenix City? We need to talk to him.” So, they called me in the Winter of ’77 and in ’78, I was in his car for the whole season. They were based out of Des Moines, Iowa.

“My girlfriend, Debbie and I, we moved to Des Moines and got a little apartment.”

As it worked out, we ran over 100 races. I moved to Des Moines and that was a big move for me. I’d never been out of Oklahoma City, except to go race and come back. Trostle said, “You gotta move up here; you gotta live by the car and you gotta work on the car.” So, I did it. My girlfriend, Debbie and I, we moved to Des Moines and got a little apartment.

How was Bob Trostle as a car owner? Was he tough on you as a driver?
Carson: He was pretty tough. Like I said, his driver before me was Wolfgang and he won everything. He won 45 features the year before and I’d only won one feature—that race in Phenix City. He took a huge gamble on me being able to learn the tracks, learn the car and learn how to win. And, we did it. By the end of the year, we’d won 25 features, the Knoxville [Iowa] championship. We won the NSCA title. We did not run the Outlaws full time, but we ran some, because we were running weekly at Knoxville and by the end of the year, we were competitive enough to run with any of those guys. I felt like we could win anytime.

In October after a race at Chula Vista [California], Trostle told me, “Well, we’ve won all these races, a championship, but you just haven’t been doing as good as I thought you should, so we’re not going to Eldora [Ohio].”

Eldora was the big [King of the Outlaws] finale, and everybody wanted to go because it paid $10,000 to win. I thought, by now, I could do it. I was up, ready to go and he told me, “I don’t think you’ve got a chance; I’m not going to go.” So, I said, “What do you mean you’re not going to go?” And he said, “I’ve decided to not go to Eldora for the finale and in ’79, you’re out and Doug Wolfgang is back in.” That was a big setback for me after running all year with him and winning; I was out of a ride.

Carson driving the Nickles Brothers sprint at Eldora, Ohio, in 1978. (Photo: John Mahoney/Carson Archive)

So, I was at my mom and dad’s house in Oklahoma City. I was just getting ready to jump in the truck and drive to Ohio and I got a phone call from the Nickels Brothers out of Lima, Ohio, and they said, “We heard you were out of a ride…” and they put me in their car for Eldora.

So, we went there and won that $10,000-to-win race. That car hadn’t had a real good record. It had a lot of people drive it and it won a few races here and there but nothing like this one. There were 100 cars there that day. It was a big deal!

Sweet redemption. Didn’t you buy a new Camaro Z28 with your winnings?
Carson: Yeah, I did, and I still have it. [Laughs] It’s in my shop right now. It’s a red ’77 Z28. It was $4,700 and that was just right because I got half the money, so, I had $300 left over. I didn’t know what I was going to do for the next year, but I knew I wanted that Camaro.

“I got the money and got back down to the track and it was pitch dark …”

I still drive it; I was driving it the other day and I realized it had been 2,000 miles since I changed the oil and that was 10 years ago. [laughs] I need to start driving it more.

Oh, man; you called Trostle after the race to tell him who won, right?
Carson: Yeah. It was a day race, so, the race was over at about 4 or 5 o’clock, and by the time I got the money and got back down to the track and it was pitch dark. I could hear ’em down in the infield but all the lights were off, so I couldn’t see anything. There was a security guy that walked me down to the fence and he said, “OK; you’re on your own.”

I’ve got this Snickers box full of money. It’s got ones, fives, rolls of quarters, a big box of money and I’m thinking, “Damn, I don’t wanna go over there by myself …” So, I crossed the track, towards the infield and I get to my pit and they were the only ones that was left. They were whooping and hollering in the back of the Ford Econoline van, like a ’64 or ’65.

1978 King of the Outlaws victory party. Carson won the finale and Steve Kinser won the championship at Eldora, with Outlaws founder Ted Johnson (far right). (Photo: John Mahoney/Carson Archive)

Well, during the race, they all stood on top of the van and there was about six of ’em and as the race went on, and we were doing better and better, they were jumping up and down on this van. Well, by the end of the race, the roof was down on top of the seats. So, they got a floor jack and a piece of wood and they started popping the roof back up so we could go home.

We all piled in and we’re headed down the road and I said, “Hey, we need to stop and call Trostle and tell ’em we won.” So, we find a payphone on a curb near a little highway on the way to Lima, and we pull in there and we all huddle around this payphone. There’s about four of ’em in there with me and I called Trostle and he answers the phone and I says, “Hey, Bob, this is Shane; I just wanted to give you an update on the race. Who do you think won?

“So, we find a payphone on a curb near a little highway on the way to Lima, and we pull in there and we all huddle around this payphone.”

He goes, “Umm, probably Wolfie.” “Nope, wasn’t Wolfie.” “Well, it was probably Steve [Kinser] then.” “Nope, it wasn’t Steve, either.” He goes, “Well, who won?” I said, “we did!”

It was dead silence and then I was like, “Hello, hello?” [laughs] He finally said, “Well, how did that happen?” I said, “We beat ’em all, Bob; we just beat ’em all, that’s all I can tell you.” He was shocked.

There’s always a little bit of luck involved when you run a race like that: We drew good, we ran good in the heat, we won the main event and we got the money—$10,000. This was when the Knoxville Nationals paid $4,500 and that was the biggest race of the year. This was 1978 and obviously, you can buy a brand new Z28 for $4,700.

Did you and Trostle stay friends over the years?
Carson: We went to Australia in ’87. It was a big couple weeks of racing. It was myself, Danny Lasowski, Rocky Hodges, Jeff Tuttle and Jeff Gordon. He was just 15 years old and we didn’t know who he was, really, and he had to bring his own car. We had a good time, but I don’t think we beat all the Aussies.

You and Trostle teamed up again in ‘79; how did that happen?
Carson: We got back together when Wolfgang and Bob split and me and Speedway Motors [owner Bill Smith] split. It was at this perfect time; it almost happened the same week and me and Doug just swapped rides and I got back in the 20. We rubbing compounded his name off the hood.

We got back to winning pretty quick and we won again at Eldora at the end of the year. We started way back in the field, passed ‘em all and drove away. It was a big one for us and they bumped the money up again, too.

Trostle and I started out in ’80 and we ran up until about April and then I decided we weren’t getting along and I was just getting ready to start promoting my first Outlaw show in June.

You also raced full time on the Outlaw circuit; how many seasons did you do that?
Carson: Two: ’82 and ’83. I was driving a car for Tom Garrett out of Oklahoma. He had a big farm where he raised emus, buffalo, ostrich and some other exotic animals. He raised ’em and sold ’em. That was his business and he was also a doctor. With that car [Tom Garret Farms] we ran third in the points in ’82, after a season-long battle with Brad Doty. In ’83, we ran fifth in points and we ran every race both years. I made the whole season.

“Well, Dad, they’ve been doing this everywhere, and I’ve been around the country with these guys and I think it’s gonna work.”

I was also getting into the promotion business. I put on my first World of Outlaws show at Oklahoma City in 1980. So, I was starting to get a little more involved with that. I knew that I wasn’t going to race forever, and I thought that maybe I could do the promoting thing and stay involved and still race some, too. But when you run the Outlaws fulltime, you’re on the road all the time, so, it took a little bit away from my promotional abilities. We used to run two Outlaw shows a year: one in the spring and one in the summer. I did that for 22 years, from ’80 until 2002.

I remember when I did my first one in 1980, I told my dad I was gonna do it. I told him about the Outlaws, and he said, “Well, how much is the purse?” I told him, like, “$12,500.” And he goes, “Ohhh, that’s way too high. I don’t think that’ll work. What do you think you’re going to charge to get in?” I said, “I think I’m going to charge $12 a ticket.” And he says, “That’s crazy, nobody’ll come!” I said, “Well, Dad, they’ve been doing this everywhere, and I’ve been around the country with these guys and I think it’s gonna work.”

En route to victory, Carson driving the Trostle machine at Hawkeye Downs in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, 1979. (Carson Archive)

So, when we had it, we had about 7,500 people and the money covered it easily and the race was great; the people loved it because it was something different than they saw every week. It was a special event and it became very popular in Oklahoma City. Dad was just shocked; he just couldn’t believe it.

Was your dad involved with the track promotion at that point?
Carson: He was actually the fair manager for the Oklahoma City Fairgrounds. He did that after he got out of the racing business and he did that until ’88 or ’89. They hired him to run the track for the fair; he was on the payroll.

When he started in the promotion business, he didn’t know much about it. It was 1957. But he learned. He was really good with people. He had a great relationship with the media. He could get ’em to cover the races, and the radio stations were there. He did things that were a little bit out of the ordinary, but it made sense.

The Agajanians and my family were a lot alike and I learned from both of them. They were both fulltime promoters at the same time.

You also raced full time on the Outlaw circuit; how many seasons did you do that?
Carson: Two: ’82 and ’83. I was driving a car for Tom Garrett out of Oklahoma. He had a big farm where he raised emus, buffalo, ostrich and some other exotic animals. He raised ’em and sold ’em. That was his business and he was also a doctor. With that car [Tom Garret Farms] we ran third in the points in ’82, after a season-long battle with Brad Doty. In ’83, we ran fifth in points and we ran every race both years. I made the whole season.

In 1982 and ’83, Carson competed full time on the World Of Outlaws series driving the number 12$ Garret Farms sprinter. I-70 Speedway, Odessa, MO. (Photo Jeff Taylor/Carson Archive)

Oh, right, and you drove the Agajanian family sprint car at Ascot; how did that get started?
Carson: That all started after I won again at Eldora in ’79, when I was driving for Trostle. It was $11,000 this time. I first went out there and met with J.C. [Agajanian]. He got me in his office one day, it was dark; he was sick, and it was not long before he passed away. He had all the lights off and I’m in there trying to talk to him and he’s telling me, quietly, he’s been following my career and he’s been watching how I’ve been doing.

A 1980 Ascot program cover featuring Oskie and Carson.

He said, “You know, you remind me a lot of Troy Ruttman.” And I’m thinking, the only thing that would make me anything like him is we’re both from Oklahoma. Troy Ruttman is like 6'5" and I’m much shorter; we’re nothing alike in that way. But he liked the way we communicated with him. He just liked Troy and he liked me.

I drove for him until they quit running Ascot—from ’80 ’til ’90. I’d go out and drive the house car. What he did with that house car was he’d bring in the guy who won the big race or won the championship. He’d bring a guy in and promote him as “the outlaw from Oklahoma, or Pennsylvania, or Iowa.” He was really promotionally minded. He knew how to make people want to come out and watch the races. He was a great motivator and I learned a lot from him.

And, you became pals with Jimmy Oskie while you were in California, and you guys are still good friends, right?
Carson: The first time I went to Ascot, I remember we were running down the front straightaway and I was following Jimmy and somebody else and they’d get right to about the flag stand and turned ’em sideways. I about ran over ’em! I thought they were looking at me, completely sideways. I darted to the right to miss ’em and a couple laps later, I was setting it right where they were. I learned the hard way, almost.

Jimmy was really easy to talk to, but he wanted to talk about baseball and all this other stuff. I was trying to figure why those guys raced like they did, and that was the last thing that he wanted to talk about. Oskie, Dean Thompson and all those guys were good. It was the craziest thing I’d ever seen.

Doug Wolfgang said the same thing. He said, “Those guys are just unconscious.” They’re so good at what they do, they don’t even try. I guess it was just natural ability.

In the early ’80s, I remember, we’d be getting ready for the race and everybody’s lined up [on the front stretch at Ascot] and the announcer is starting at the rear, introducing the drivers. Well, Oskie is down in turn one playing catch with Dean Thompson. He’s got a baseball mitt and they’re throwing ball back and forth. Just goofing off. And then when [the announcer] gets within a couple of rows of his, he hands somebody his mitt and gets in the car. Wolfgang and I would just look at each other, like how can that guy do that and still be so good? But he was.

(Left to right) Shane Carson and Jimmy Oskie visit Chase and Colby Johnson at Ventura Raceway during the 2019 Turkey Night Grand Prix.

I guess, you know, Jimmy ran from the days without roll cages; he had so many years of racing in different types of cars. The sprint cars are kinda the same, but he went from skinny tires that were really tall with no cages to what they’ve got now; there’s a lot of difference. He just learned it and it was almost like second nature for him. It was almost like he didn’t try. He won five championships, but he could’ve won 10! He quit in 1990, when Ascot shut down. He was still pretty young.

You ran both non-wing and winged during your career?
Carson: Yeah, the Knoxville championship was all non-wing. We didn’t go to wings at Knoxville until 1982. And that happened because of a couple of horrendous wrecks. So, for safety, we had to start running them.

The Outlaws were mostly non-wing until ’81. Actually, at the first Outlaw races the promoter dictated whether you could run a wing or not. The first race at Devils Bowl was non-wing. We went from there to Ohio, and that was with wings. So, we’d run the same cars and we’d run the wings; or take ’em off.

You raced with the original Outlaws and continued as it changed into the more modern-day scene; you bridged the gap.
Carson: That’s a fact. In ’82 and ’83, I ran the whole season with one car, both years. We had maybe two engines and we rotated them—rebuilt them in parking lots—whatever we had to do. That was the early days, and today, guys will have three cars with them and two engines at the shop, one in the car and two in the trailer. They’ve got unlimited resources, and you have to have that if you’re going to be competitive at that level. The sponsorships have enabled them to do it.

Carson signing an autograph at the Tulsa Fairgrounds in the late ‘70s. (Carson Archive)

You continued racing, driving NCRA sprint cars until 2000.
Carson: At that time, my fulltime owner was out of Dallas. I drove for him for 10 years. His name was James Helms. James was a really good guy.

In 1989 he had a falling out with his driver and I happened to be driving another car that day and he’s walking by me on his way to back to his pit and he goes, “Are you racing anything next week?” I said, “No.” So, we talked, and I agreed to drive his car, and I drove for him for 10 years. [laughs] We had a great relationship. I took care of the car; I kept it in Oklahoma City, and I had crew guys with me; we had a big semi-truck.

Both you and your dad are in the Sprint Car Hall of Fame in Knoxville; that’s a unique honor.
Carson: Of course, his career to me made it a no-brainer and he’s worthy of the honor. I was able to go up [to Knoxville] and accept. He passed away in 1991. That’s one thing that I tried to push, when I was involved with the Hall of Fame, is get these guys in when they’re still alive. Of course, that’s easier said than done, but I like for those guys to be able to enjoy being in the hall of fame when they’re still around. I was inducted in 2007 and that was a big honor for me and dad.

It must be difficult for you to see the track gone in Oklahoma City; how long has it been closed?
Carson: I just hate that. That track had been running weekly from 1954 until around 2010, or ’11 and now it’s a parking lot. That track was just like home; I grew up there. We just pretty much lived there. My mom and dad had their office there under the grandstands and we were always there. During the fair, dad would run fair races, and he had 15 shows in 10 days. He’d have one in the afternoon and one at night, a motorcycle race and then a sprint car race. I was around all kinds of racing, and during the fair we’d see racers and cars that we didn’t see but once a year. It taught me a little bit about what else was out there.

“So, I told him I would do it and they sent me a schedule and it was 200 days a year on track—at 20 different tracks.”

You’re still very active in racing; how many races do you go to in a year?
Carson: Over 50—all different kinds—I might be at a micro race in Oklahoma, or a sprint car race at Knoxville. I usually try to go to Florida at the first of the year and when you’re down there, there are eight or 10 races that you can make in 10 or 12 days. I try to get around and keep up with the sport.

I’ll go to some NASCAR races, but it’s usually because we’re doing some kind of ride-along event [for Team Texas Driving School]. These past couple of months, I’ve been at Texas [Motor Speedway] every two weeks. We had a group from Amway; about 700 people showed up. We did rides for ’em, had pit-stop competitions; it was a great experience for that company. That’s the coolest thing about that driving experience stuff is you get regular people to be able see what it’s like to be at the racetrack, or in those racecars. I really like doing that.

When my last owner passed away in 2000, Brad Noffsinger called me from North Carolina and asked if I’d be interested in doing the ride-along for the Richard Petty Driving Experience. Well, I met him in Milwaukee, and he showed me how the program works. Well, we ran for three days and it was wall-to-wall people and I saw the look on people’s faces that came out of those cars and they were so jazzed up about racing; I thought that would be really cool to keep doing. So, I told him I would do it and they sent me a schedule and it was 200 days a year on track—at 20 different tracks. I did that for five years, on the road. I would fly into a track: Darlington, Daytona, Talladega, Fontana, California, wherever. I’d go in on a Wednesday and came back home on a Sunday. I did that every week for five years.

You were still racing, almost.
Carson: Yeah. [laughs] That was my therapy for not racing. I was getting in those cars and running around at speed and getting that positive feedback from the people that were with me. The Petty Driving Experience was owned by a guy named Barry Graham; he was a sprint car guy from Australia. I only met him a couple of times, but he knew me through the history of sprint car racing and kept us in good equipment. We had the right people working and the right people driving. It was a cool deal for me.

Keep up with Shane:

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t: @shanecarson